tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post2118589339019338586..comments2024-02-29T02:54:19.767-05:00Comments on Babbling Books: They Were Her Property by Stephanie E. Jones-RogersBrian Josephhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-50849317546176586722020-02-29T10:45:13.870-05:002020-02-29T10:45:13.870-05:00Thanks Naida - I also have been mostly exposed to ...Thanks Naida - I also have been mostly exposed to this topic through more general sources. The Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass Is well worth reading. I need to give it a reread soon. I also find some of this stuff disturbing. <br /><br />That is an interesting observation about Gettysburg. I think that for some, the Confederate Flag thing is cultural and not related to racism or slavery. But others do use it as a racist symbol.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-58316595946771712922020-02-29T10:07:21.925-05:002020-02-29T10:07:21.925-05:00This is a fascinating topic and They Were Her Prop...This is a fascinating topic and They Were Her Property sounds like a thought provoking read. What I've come across on this topic has been mainly while reading articles or watching documentaries about the Civil War. I did read Fredrick Douglas' memoir and reading about it from his POV was really emotional. We can't even begin to imagine something so horrific but also it's not hard to imagine that some of the white women were as bad as their husbands in regards to the treatment of their slaves. I barely made it through some scenes in 12 Years a Slave.<br /><br />Off topic still somewhat related, I went to Gettysburg not too long ago and I was surprised that the Confederate flag memorabilia is all over the place for sale and I saw people purchasing it. Once the shock of seeing that wore off, I really began to wonder why. <br />Great commentary as always! This is one I would read.<br />the bookwormhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15357796617059183930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-46637640138041852582020-02-17T07:43:49.751-05:002020-02-17T07:43:49.751-05:00Hi Carol - I think that I remember that from The N...Hi Carol - I think that I remember that from The Narrative of the Life of Fredrick Douglas. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-90988618623954856412020-02-16T23:01:28.695-05:002020-02-16T23:01:28.695-05:00I’m not all that familiar with American history bu...I’m not all that familiar with American history but I was reading the Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass recently & he mentioned some women who were just as bad as their husbands when it came to cruelty towards their slaves.Carolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06820925595506920754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-87764625065321589302020-02-09T20:16:53.191-05:002020-02-09T20:16:53.191-05:00Hi Sue - I have never actually read Gone With the ...Hi Sue - I have never actually read Gone With the Wind. <br /><br />If you gave this a try. I would be curious what you thought about it. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-68899914479916051042020-02-09T20:15:03.778-05:002020-02-09T20:15:03.778-05:00Thanks RT! Thanks RT! Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-40644499259782819562020-02-09T18:46:32.203-05:002020-02-09T18:46:32.203-05:00Superb critical review ... I look forward to readi...Superb critical review ... I look forward to reading the book AND more of your postings. <br />Best wishes, Tim<br />https://miscellaneousmusingsrevisited.blogspot.com/<br />RTDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17113953356514605424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-60120260447674822852020-02-07T06:11:09.283-05:002020-02-07T06:11:09.283-05:00This does sound like an interesting book, worth a ...This does sound like an interesting book, worth a read - I must see if my local library has a copy. <br /><br />I read Gone With The Wind in my teens, and I’m afraid I thought of it as a 1000 page Mills and Boon! One which romanticised slavery, at that. Sue Bursztynskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09362273418897882971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-43265428460092172852020-02-06T21:36:55.131-05:002020-02-06T21:36:55.131-05:00Hi Jillian- Thanks for the quotation. It is so int...Hi Jillian- Thanks for the quotation. It is so interesting to read about early reaction, in this case it is reaction to the reaction, of a famous work. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-63344345792039318322020-02-06T21:33:32.668-05:002020-02-06T21:33:32.668-05:00Hi Paula - There really are a lot of books still b...Hi Paula - There really are a lot of books still being written on slavery related topics. The book was well researched Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-19499227702146546692020-02-06T19:11:16.793-05:002020-02-06T19:11:16.793-05:00That's a recent publication, for such a histor...That's a recent publication, for such a historical topic. It sounds like she really did her homework with a great variety of sources. An interesting study indeed. Paula Vincehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02079952414990463270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-57398914465357537762020-02-06T15:15:33.425-05:002020-02-06T15:15:33.425-05:00Found this quote today. Just thought it'd be g...Found this quote today. Just thought it'd be good for a laugh. :)<br /><br /><b>Margaret Mitchell in a letter to her friend Herschel Brickell – Oct 22, 1936 (referencing reviews of her novel <i>Gone With the Wind</i>):</b><br /><br />– “You recall how the ‘left wingers’ romped on me? Some said with pity that it was unfortunate that I was only interested in plot and character and background. Because, it seems, I missed all the political and economic implications inherent in the period of which I wrote. Others, in wrath, shouted that I seemed totally unaware of ‘mass movements’ (I’ve been wondering just what they were). Others that I was too small-minded to realize that there were sociological matters that I entirely overlooked.<br /><br />“Well. The English reviews have come in and, for the most part, are as good as to take my breath away. But one of them says, ‘It is a pity that Miss Mitchell cannot handle character and plot as superbly as she handles mass movements.’ Another, after a whacking good review, remarks that it is obvious Miss Mitchell is far more interested in the economic and sociological side of the period of which she writes than she is in mere story. Another announces shrewdly that I am, at heart, a sociologist. It seems that there is some slight disagreement.”*ೃ༄ Jillianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14139487177036647728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-90759443278626695612020-02-06T06:10:21.857-05:002020-02-06T06:10:21.857-05:00Thanks Baili - You raise some good points. It is a...Thanks Baili - You raise some good points. It is as if a small number of loud activists are trying to not not had relive, but to take revenge for the past, on people that are alive today. <br /><br />With all that, what was normal in the past is unthinkable today. I agree that we must continue to push good ideas. We can make things better by doing that.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-38858355182570919742020-02-06T01:14:18.726-05:002020-02-06T01:14:18.726-05:00Another remarkable review dear Brain!
I read it t...Another remarkable review dear Brain!<br /><br />I read it twice to get along well as topic is new to me <br />I really admire your knowledge about history and specially what inspires me more is your insightful look over the changing environment of world and revolutionary evaluation in human perspective<br /><br />You will find me at the ending edge of knowledge if you look for learned people though<br />I have not much information about the subject writer discussed here but i respect my own opinion about it and not hesitating to share <br />Thinking other human being low or treating him poorly on the basis of imbalance power we both possess makes us an ill minded person., there is no second opinion about it i think<br />What happened in past was "normal" in that era because being racist was "fashion" and people in power followed it blindly , may be even those who did not want to but still did to avoid ridiculous behaviour from circle they existed in.<br /><br />I strongly object upon project who is trying to make people relive that painful time .<br />I think such research can bring no good but restlessness and negatively among people<br /><br />I think if we want to progress for better,it is important to pickup ,only "goodness" that our past had as humans instead of events that show our sick approach that we experienced then.<br />Thank you for being always so AMAZINGLY brilliant and sharing your wisdom with us!bailihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06498012175058870980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-80627261479592200732020-02-05T14:43:39.643-05:002020-02-05T14:43:39.643-05:00Hi Felicity- That is a great cover. That is a grea...Hi Felicity- That is a great cover. That is a great cover. <br /><br />Oppression is never an excuse to oppress others. <br /><br />Though I am convinced that a lot of woman did participate in the institution of slavery, I am not sure how men and women really compared. We would need more statistics. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-58119714145126779812020-02-05T08:43:29.886-05:002020-02-05T08:43:29.886-05:00Wow! Such a powerful cover.
Saddened that we, th...Wow! Such a powerful cover. <br /><br />Saddened that we, the fairer sex (right?) were complicit in such things and yet I'm neither surprised nor, sadly, shocked. Yes, to a certain degree we were also oppressed but is that ever an excuse??? <br /><br />What sounds like a truly thought provoking read. As always thank you for sharing your thoughts on a book that I suspect may raise as many questions as it answers. Felicity Grace Terryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17852843882007267665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-45406870838441156152020-02-05T06:04:38.517-05:002020-02-05T06:04:38.517-05:00Hi Susan - It seems that the majority of people ar...Hi Susan - It seems that the majority of people are not surprised by all this. The author does not delve into the abolishment movement. That history is well documented but I have only read a bit about it. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-80917753318065973622020-02-04T17:27:42.383-05:002020-02-04T17:27:42.383-05:00It doesn't surprise me that in the Pre-Civil W...It doesn't surprise me that in the Pre-Civil War South white women played an active role in slavery. It would surprise me to know of those who did not ... and what their roles were ... religious or otherwise. It just seemed a prevalent part of society in agriculture and the like. But I need to do more reading about this era and part of the country. thecuecardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08870323589682197091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-13152232289157313592020-02-03T09:52:21.288-05:002020-02-03T09:52:21.288-05:00One additional thought occurred to me. As to celeb...One additional thought occurred to me. As to celebrating the considerable progress we have made, that is one reason why I like Steven Pinker so much. It is one of his central themes. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-49343898533909116382020-02-03T09:29:07.982-05:002020-02-03T09:29:07.982-05:00Hi Sharon - The thing is, as I think you know, I a...Hi Sharon - The thing is, as I think you know, I am adamantly opposed to the collective guilt, dismissal of human progress, looking only at identity to find truth and morality, censorship in the name of social justice, etc have been referring to these things as postmodernism. As I mentioned above, I approached this book with suspicion. But I think that we have to be careful and not throw everything out that touches on these issues because we find postmodernism such a bad set of ideas. <br /><br />On the other hand, I think looking at gender roles of the past has some value. Were the majority of women so oppressed that they did not participate in these things. Or were women exactly the same as men? Or is the truth somewhere in between. How much does biological differences between large groups of men and women come into play? I think that these are valid, interesting and important questions. <br /><br />BTW - I did not think that you were negative. These are complicated issues. <br /><br />Have a great day! <br />Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-47270268890756635842020-02-03T00:29:20.736-05:002020-02-03T00:29:20.736-05:00Really good review, Brian, although the book leave...Really good review, Brian, although the book leaves me with some questions that all white guilt books leave me with. Why are we looking at people, both oppressed and oppressive as if they have not been dead for almost two hundred years?<br /><br />Instead of being depressed, why aren't we celebrating the fact that slavery has not been around in America for longer now than we've been a country? Why are these scholarly works dredging up the past and inflicting it on the present? What do they hope to accomplish?<br /><br />If they're concerned about slavery making a comeback, why don't they focus their energies on the parts of the world where it has never gone away? Or is it an inconvenient truth to discuss people other than the white race enslaving humans?<br /><br />Sorry, but I am really going through major white guilt fatigue. We are so blessed in this country with the freedoms and opportunities that don't exist anywhere else, and I include Europe when I say that.<br /><br />There are European countries where you would not even be allowed to make any negative accusations against the current political leaders or you'd be shut down. No I'm not talking about Russia. I'm talking about France and England, not to mention Canada, where they are now dictating to pastors what they may or may not say from the pulpit.<br /><br />But no. Let's go tsk, tsk, tsk over people who no longer exist.<br /><br />Your review was really good, Brian. Sorry if I'm being negative. Have a good week!Sharon Wilfonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17466621290140789056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-42298598609656999592020-02-02T23:30:49.657-05:002020-02-02T23:30:49.657-05:00Hi Marian - This can be depressing stuff.
I thin...Hi Marian - This can be depressing stuff. <br /><br />I think men and women did have different levels of power in society so there might very well have been differences in the way they generally acted towards slaves. <br /><br />In the author’s defense, she did paint a picture of how many women allowed slavery to become key components of their lives. So I think this might Have been a fair statement for some. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-58962101563641408582020-02-02T23:17:11.894-05:002020-02-02T23:17:11.894-05:00Brian - Depressing topic, but your review is so in...Brian - Depressing topic, but your review is so interesting and makes me reevaluate how I read books on history (or current events, for that matter). <br /><br />My personal hypothesis is that slavery and other social evils are/have been the joint responsibility of men and women. I struggle to see women as bystanders, unless they are/were tantamount to slaves themselves.<br /><br />On the other hand, like you I get uncomfortable with language like "core elements of their identities." That's an awfully tidy way of putting it, but not very nuanced. Identity is such a fundamental, complex concept that's been watered down by tying too many attributes to it, IMHO.<br /><br />Jillian - Thanks for sharing those insights on Mitchell! I didn't like the movie GWTW but I wonder if I might like the book for what you point out.Marian Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14115916138435761469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-45385893195206044862020-02-02T12:56:20.013-05:002020-02-02T12:56:20.013-05:00Thanks Judy - Slavery is abhorrent. It is true tha...Thanks Judy - Slavery is abhorrent. It is true that it was considered normal and accepted throughout the globe for most of civilization. How we came to a point where we consider it unacceptable is both important and interesting.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-1706666708555396512020-02-02T12:52:47.809-05:002020-02-02T12:52:47.809-05:00Thanks Jillian. English and History would be a gre...Thanks Jillian. English and History would be a great double major. <br />Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.com