tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post1671165909398629590..comments2024-02-29T02:54:19.767-05:00Comments on Babbling Books: My Thoughts on The KoranBrian Josephhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-46561431009648220922017-12-02T20:31:10.824-05:002017-12-02T20:31:10.824-05:00Thanks for stopping by Amin.
I think that the is...Thanks for stopping by Amin. <br /><br />I think that the issues that you raise are true to some extent for all ancient text. There are obstacles in translation, there are obstacles of time, there are obstacles in culture. I would call my reading of The Koran "middlebrow". It is not scholarly. It is attempting to read it as best as I can and interpreting as best as I can. There are limits to this kind of reading. With that, much of the discourse and writing that is going on in the opinion pieces. blogs, public opinion television programs, is more or less on this level. Many Muslims, professors, journalists, Ex - Muslims and others are participating. A percentage of these folks have clearly read the text in its original version. It also seems that many Muslims are more or less following such a "middlebrow" approach. Such an approach is having a profound affect upon the world. <br /><br />Scholarly approaches are important. Furthermore I think that scholars should chime into these everyday conversations. They should help clarify as well as add their opinion. <br /><br />I also think that a good translation goes well beyond the literal and should impart real meaning. It is possible that the translation that I have read dis not do that. I did try to find the best one that I can find. <br /><br />I may have not explained my reading of the text above but my understanding about the different groups mentioned matches your explanation. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-30780157863973043752017-12-02T15:59:19.423-05:002017-12-02T15:59:19.423-05:00Good effort! But I don't think there is much p...Good effort! But I don't think there is much point in reading the Quran by itself. <br /><br />Unlike the Bible, there is a lot of importance placed on the Arabic of the text. Therefore rather than producing a work like the King James Bible in English, all such translation attempt to make very literal translation and this produces a scant work which fails to convey much of the context required. <br /><br />"They are referred to as unbelievers."<br /><br />Just this example. The Quran was a direct response to the Pagans of Arabia at that time and they are referred to as "Mushrik" [Pagans, Idolators]. Much of the "venom" is directly aimed at them. When disbelievers are generally meant then Quran uses the word "Kafir". And to specify Christian and Jews, another term is used. <br /><br />If someone removes this context then clearly a lot is lost. <br /><br />- - <br /><br />West actually has quite a deep and varied [critical] scholarship over Islam. I think most of the prestigious Western universities have a "Middle Eastern" department. It is probably much better, for interested non-Muslims to study Quran in light of that. <br /><br /><br /><br /> Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01087060271340243488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-73125001604147758902017-02-15T06:10:56.225-05:002017-02-15T06:10:56.225-05:00Thanks Kate. Thank you also for stopping by.
With...Thanks Kate. Thank you also for stopping by.<br /><br />Without a doubt there are many interpretations of the religious books. Some emphasize the good things while others emphasize the bad. With that, I think that the text has meaning that an objective reader can try to pull out and interpret. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-82835118748126331172017-02-14T20:20:35.933-05:002017-02-14T20:20:35.933-05:00Fascinating analysis. I would like to read the Kor...Fascinating analysis. I would like to read the Koran myself. In fact, I would like to read the Koran back-to-back with the Bible (which I first read straight through a few years ago) for the sake of comparison. I think it's good to engage in a critical and compassionate reading of any religious text. I am a Christian but I would be lying if I said there is nothing truly disturbing in the Bible or that certain contradictions within the text are easily explained. I think ultimately what any believer (Jew, Muslim, or Christian) takes away from a text has a lot to do with what he or she puts into it. If you come at it with hatred toward women, you will inevitably find justification for it. If you are looking for a reason to care for the poor, you will find that as well. Anything can be used for good or evil.Kate Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15878471739967889253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-72461353548796255722017-01-29T09:14:58.807-05:002017-01-29T09:14:58.807-05:00Hi Naida - These books to provide comfort for many...Hi Naida - These books to provide comfort for many. Indeed much of the morality is outdated and should not be applied. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-50551585654684397302017-01-29T09:12:52.866-05:002017-01-29T09:12:52.866-05:00Thanks James.
Without a doubt, this book can be u...Thanks James.<br /><br />Without a doubt, this book can be used to justify horrendous behavior. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-27793267079429069212017-01-29T09:10:10.635-05:002017-01-29T09:10:10.635-05:00Fascinating post and topic Brian. I've never r...Fascinating post and topic Brian. I've never read the Koran but have read passages from the Bible. I don't agree with everything in the Bible, but I do find some passages and quotes a source of comfort at times. Many of the ideas and thoughts in these ancient texts can be outdated however, especially in regards to women. <br />Thanks for your respectful and interesting post on the Koran.The Bookwormhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10217390642323530030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-18163192977901809872017-01-29T06:35:58.144-05:002017-01-29T06:35:58.144-05:00Once again I am impressed by your thoughtful and c...Once again I am impressed by your thoughtful and careful posting and analysis. In my reading of the Koran I was impressed with the stories of the Old Testament prophets that were included in the book, but dismayed by some of the other aspects you have highlighted. <br />I find the views on women especially troublesome as well as the violence directed toward the "unbelievers" that can to easily be put to nefarious use by those who seek to do so.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00561320676355168336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-72469528396619300982017-01-26T20:19:22.851-05:002017-01-26T20:19:22.851-05:00Hi Stefanie - In regards to The Koran and The Old ...Hi Stefanie - In regards to The Koran and The Old Testament, I am very glad that millions of people interpret them as books that encourage good. This is despite the fact that I think there are more unethical things then there are ethical. <br /><br />Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-71088419615865743732017-01-26T14:27:27.183-05:002017-01-26T14:27:27.183-05:00I'm glad I was finally able to read your post!...I'm glad I was finally able to read your post! Very interesting and thoughtful. It seems that just like Judaism and Christianity, the text can and is interpreted in so many ways. For all three of those religions it can be read for the good or for the radical and destructive. There are plenty of passages in the Bible and the Torah that say men are in charge of women. It's what we do with the texts, the stories, that matter I think. Do we use them to make the world a better place for everyone? Or are they used to grab and hold power over others? Stefaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14943596258182968212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-1275724382515382662017-01-25T05:38:49.398-05:002017-01-25T05:38:49.398-05:00Hi Susan - I am as secular as one can get :) I thi...Hi Susan - I am as secular as one can get :) I think that at the very least The Koran is very important in understanding history as well as the one many people who believe this to be an accurate description of the Universe.<br />Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-49999068835855518252017-01-24T20:32:41.898-05:002017-01-24T20:32:41.898-05:00The text sounds pretty contradictory, but I guess ...The text sounds pretty contradictory, but I guess a lot of religious texts are. If it's no guide on morality, then not sure how it can be helpful. Maybe I'm too secular to see its various merits. thecuecardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08870323589682197091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-13031995713804523712017-01-23T05:33:02.587-05:002017-01-23T05:33:02.587-05:00Hi Suko - Understanding The Koran is indeed a diff...Hi Suko - Understanding The Koran is indeed a difficult task.<br /><br /><br />Many people who are unfamiliar with it are very surprised that it relies so heavily on The Bible.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-73419012652140420642017-01-22T23:18:59.258-05:002017-01-22T23:18:59.258-05:00Brian Joseph,
Thank you for presenting your interp...Brian Joseph,<br />Thank you for presenting your interpretations or impressions of this book. Like the Bible, it is quite complex and difficult to understand at times. (My experience with it is limited to my high school social studies classes.) It's interesting that a large part of the Koran consists of a retelling and commentary of Bible stories. Sukohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11893742747135555499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-81971200404475403602017-01-20T20:49:44.042-05:002017-01-20T20:49:44.042-05:00Thanks Maria.
Indeed, there are a lot of bad thi...Thanks Maria. <br /><br />Indeed, there are a lot of bad things in both the Old Testament and The Koran. The devaluing of woman in both works is striking. <br /><br />I believe that based on our standards, there is much more bad then there is good in both books.<br /><br /> I find the New Testament to be more good then bad, but I think that it is not a complete guide to morality. <br /><br />Have a great weekend!Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-68111240579601385812017-01-20T20:15:32.049-05:002017-01-20T20:15:32.049-05:00Outstanding post as usual, Brian!
I was surprised...Outstanding post as usual, Brian!<br /><br />I was surprised to read, in your excellent commentary on this book, that it contains many of the same stories that are included in the Bible. How interesting! Of course, Mohammed's take on these stories is probably not the same one espoused in the Bible. I see, though, that there is a similar prevalence of violence in both the Bible -- especially in the Old Testament -- and the Koran.<br /><br />I was not at all surprised, however, at the quote which advocates the beating of "disobedient" women. Both the Bible and the Koran are, without a doubt, misogynistic books.<br /><br />As in much of life, there are no all-good or all-bad things to say about both of these religious texts. Although I've never read the Koran, and have only read parts of the Bible, I would venture to say that they both contain admirable ethical standards that should be emulated, as well as unethical ones that should, instead, be avoided. Certainly the beating of women is disgusting. In the Bible, adulterers were to be stoned. And I can never forget God's order of the slaughter of the firstborn of Egypt, just because the Pharaoh refused to let the Hebrews leave the country. <br /><br />In the final analysis, I think that the practice of "cherry-picking", which is so decried by Christian fundamentalists as an approach to the Bible, is actually a valid one when reading not just the Bible, but any religious text. I totally believe that such texts are a combination of divine and human inspiration. <br /><br />This is a fascinating topic, and one that I would like to touch upon in my blog, MindSpirit Book Journeys, as well.<br /><br />Thanks for your fascinating insights!! :) :) :) Maria Beharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13635809880830316283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-36453484167796170492017-01-19T19:31:01.074-05:002017-01-19T19:31:01.074-05:00Hi Caroline - The translation issue is a real one....Hi Caroline - The translation issue is a real one. With that, though I relied mostly upon the Arberry translation I did consult some others for critical passages. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-17448810435571771982017-01-19T07:18:41.879-05:002017-01-19T07:18:41.879-05:00I don't think I will ever read the Koran but I...I don't think I will ever read the Koran but I also haven't read the Bible. <br />I suppose it's particularly tricky, in both cases, to know what is really meant as the translations are, to some extent also interpretations. At least, older versions with no annotations. <br />That said, I enjoyed your post. I makes me want to read more about religions again. Carolinehttp://beautyisasleepingcat.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-79565102938019258752017-01-19T05:32:09.242-05:002017-01-19T05:32:09.242-05:00Thanks Hila.
Since so many people believe this bo...Thanks Hila.<br /><br />Since so many people believe this book to be the absolute truth, I think that we need to consider in terms of the impact that it is having on the world. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-80280891843001392372017-01-18T23:53:59.941-05:002017-01-18T23:53:59.941-05:00Understanding the connection between the book and ...Understanding the connection between the book and people's actions is essential - the parts they choose to downplay or emphasize, or how they put a spin on one passage or another. I'm glad you acknowledge that, and respect that you grappled with this book.HKatzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17653570160517335758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-22090812864558291932017-01-18T19:37:36.825-05:002017-01-18T19:37:36.825-05:00Thanks so much A Reader's Tale. I think that ...Thanks so much A Reader's Tale. I think that it is important to listen to diverse views even when we disagree with them. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-86021887948216742122017-01-18T19:36:02.575-05:002017-01-18T19:36:02.575-05:00Hi Violet - Reading these books from a historical ...Hi Violet - Reading these books from a historical and cultural context makes a lot of sense/<br /><br />With that, I believe that approximately one billion people believe that the Koran still has relevance as a description of reality an as a guid to morality. Thus I think that it also makes sense to look at it as such. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-33903437015379103032017-01-18T19:18:18.378-05:002017-01-18T19:18:18.378-05:00I've only read the Dawood translation of the K...I've only read the Dawood translation of the Koran, which I think is very beautifully done. I tend to read religious texts in their historical and cultural context - the world was obviously very different when the Koran was written.<br /><br />Violethttp://still-life-with-books.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-42517827839463833652017-01-18T12:49:42.606-05:002017-01-18T12:49:42.606-05:00Hello Brian!! I am impressed. First of all by your...Hello Brian!! I am impressed. First of all by your open-mindedness, then by your intellect. I admire people who are trying to learn and understand other cultures and religions. A big bravo from the bottom of the heart. :-)The Reader's Taleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12701126931175725145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-26417857210284266292017-01-17T20:26:17.327-05:002017-01-17T20:26:17.327-05:00Thanks R.T. I wish that people did not take these ...Thanks R.T. I wish that people did not take these books as guid to morality either. With that, I think that there is a lot of worthy morality in The New Testament. Though I am an unbeliever. As literature and as historical documents, I do find these books fascinating. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.com