tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post2769889155025260407..comments2024-02-29T02:54:19.767-05:00Comments on Babbling Books: René Descartes - Discourse on Method Brian Josephhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-49287910904968271052014-03-20T20:01:49.395-04:002014-03-20T20:01:49.395-04:00Hi Maria - I totally agree that Dawkins is often o...Hi Maria - I totally agree that Dawkins is often out of line. In my opinion this really disqualifies him from serious conversation. Dawkins does rail against acts and speech by religious folks against non believers and believers alike that indeed justify condemnation.However, he goes much further and tends to be acerbic against almost everyone who disagrees.<br /><br />I find that the late Carl Sagan had a similar worldview. Sagan however was very respectful of contrary views and even when he was arguing against them. David Grinspoon seems to be trying to fill sagan's shoes with at least some success. Grinspoon actually has taken Dawkins' hostility to task in his Lonely Planets: The Natural Philosophy of Alien Life.<br /><br />The Selfish Gene was actually a brilliant book. Interestingly he wrote it when he was younger and the original version lacks the acerbicness. In the updated version of the book his added notes and chapters show some of the unnecessary combativeness.<br />Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-27420889844836782022014-03-20T18:16:31.929-04:002014-03-20T18:16:31.929-04:00You know, I haven't had the dubious pleasure o...You know, I haven't had the dubious pleasure of reading Dawkins, but from all the comments I've read about him, he sure sounds like a VERY unsavory character. <br /><br />You can certainly disagree with someone in a very diplomatic way. There's no need to be so hostile. Besides, if anyone truly believes that their own philosophical position is the right one, why would they get so upset when someone else disagrees? Perhaps DAwkins has some gnawing doubts about his own position. Hmmm. <br /><br />Anyway, maybe I'll check out one of his books, at some point in the future. And I mean "check out" literally -- from the library.<br /><br />As for Descartes, he, being a perfect gentleman (from what I know of him) does deserve to join my personal library. Lol.Maria Beharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13635809880830316283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-4613421416306209082014-03-13T19:00:10.485-04:002014-03-13T19:00:10.485-04:00Hi Maria - I must check out "The Story of Phi...Hi Maria - I must check out "The Story of Philosophy".<br /><br />I would guess that Dawkins is at least familier with Descartes. I have read a fair amount of Dawkins and he is actually fairly well read, including religious texts. I think that Dawkins problem is an inaate hostility to anyone he disagrees with philosphily.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-17977697878096840962014-03-13T16:51:08.278-04:002014-03-13T16:51:08.278-04:00This is a very well-analyzed review of a very prof...This is a very well-analyzed review of a very profound work written by a philosopher, who, as you've stated, has had an immense influence on our modern culture. <br /><br />I must confess to never having read any of the works of Descartes. I only know of him from the excellent book, "The Story of Philosophy", by Will Durant. <br /><br />I am now very much interested in reading "Discourse on the Method", since the whole argument of "faith vs. reason" totally fascinates me! It's very significant that Descartes did not see a conflict between these two spheres of human life. A little digression: I wonder if Richard Dawkins has ever read this particular book....<br /><br />As you stated in your review, one post is not enough to do justice to this important book. So I sure hope you will give us more insights into Descartes's methods if philosophical inquiry. <br /><br />I really enjoyed reading your thoughts on this book. Thanks for sharing them!! : )Maria Beharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13635809880830316283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-52485939430212295362014-02-20T21:48:04.746-05:002014-02-20T21:48:04.746-05:00Hi Lainy - I would say that if you are able to sur...Hi Lainy - I would say that if you are able to surmount textbooks this would not be too bad. On the other hand after reading so many textbooks I can definitely understand why you would want something lighter.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-44710312895910447482014-02-20T21:47:59.026-05:002014-02-20T21:47:59.026-05:00Hi Lainy - I would say that if you are able to sur...Hi Lainy - I would say that if you are able to surmount textbooks this would not be too bad. On the other hand after reading so many textbooks I can definitely understand why you would want something lighter.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-50333691737015656692014-02-20T19:06:19.169-05:002014-02-20T19:06:19.169-05:00For me this would be quite a challenging read I th...For me this would be quite a challenging read I think. You have done well to get through it and break it down into a way that someone like me can comprehend it.<br /><br />I am reading a lot of textbooks for my studies just now so find anything other than straight fiction challenging, which I think this would be.<br /><br />Lainy http://www.alwaysreading.netSo many books, so little timehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07564778178609301461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-44334486257047355112014-02-19T19:23:52.993-05:002014-02-19T19:23:52.993-05:00Hi Caroline - Though I am familiar with his belief...Hi Caroline - Though I am familiar with his beliefs via second hand knowledge, I really need to get to Voltaire as well as many other Age of Enlightenment philosophers.<br /><br />Likely because he was earlier, my understanding is that Descartes was firmly Catholic.<br /><br />Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-9473585138241921902014-02-19T12:21:52.378-05:002014-02-19T12:21:52.378-05:00I haven't read him since my universitiy days. ...I haven't read him since my universitiy days. Many of the great French philosophers of the Age of Reason were Deists like Voltaire. Anti-clerical but still religious, <br />People often mix up religion with the church. the thinkers weere fed up with the church, not necessarily with spirituality. I've been brought up in the spirit of Descartes and Voltaire. It never excluded the belief in the trascendental. Carolinehttp://beautyisasleepingcat.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-52404925875707557992014-02-16T15:02:47.989-05:002014-02-16T15:02:47.989-05:00Hi Emma - As I think you know I am doubtful about ...Hi Emma - As I think you know I am doubtful about the existence of God. There are those however who do seem to make a reasoned contrary case. Descartes was very much among those.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-8204767077558125042014-02-16T14:11:16.434-05:002014-02-16T14:11:16.434-05:00Great post, especially about such a work. I've...Great post, especially about such a work. I've never read it, although I have studied passages in philosophy classes. <br />I'm not religious and I'm always baffled when I see great scientists who are also firm believers. There's something instinctive about religion that defies reason. <br /><br />EmmaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-51148613467967199762014-02-13T20:43:27.421-05:002014-02-13T20:43:27.421-05:00Real good points Rachel
I would just add that the...Real good points Rachel<br /><br />I would just add that the longing for something more can take on different aspects. Just one possibility I would like to see humanity reach a sense of common purpose aimed at a combination of compassion and empathy with a realization that we are the embodiment of a conscious Universe that is learning and exploring.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-63218073516455726632014-02-13T20:20:46.879-05:002014-02-13T20:20:46.879-05:00Many my fellow folks without faith contend that re...<i>Many my fellow folks without faith contend that reason will eventually overwhelm a belief in God.</i><br /><br />Ah! Not only is such thought patronizing, but it COMPLETELY underestimates the "longing for something more" that comes naturally to humans. Whether you believe that these are useless psychological archetypes that <i>H. sapiens</i> evolved (sort of like the appendix of the mind), or whether you believe there actually IS a God, it's hard to ignore the overwhelming evidence that this human longing has existed throughout recorded history, and most likely before history as well. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01974988315420539840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-15710447445103039832014-02-13T20:12:24.991-05:002014-02-13T20:12:24.991-05:00Hi Rachel - I sometimes wonder if culture, thought...Hi Rachel - I sometimes wonder if culture, thought and society would have developed differently if these thinkers had been different. Perhaps the way things went in these respects is inevitable.<br /><br /><br />I am not a person of faith, however, I have come to realize that some very logical and intelligent folks are believers. Furthermore I also recognize that everything that I believe in is not based upon absolute logic and the scientific method. With that said I think that faith will always be challenged by reason on some levels. Many my fellow folks without faith contend that reason will eventually overwhelm a belief in God. I think that me be a bit patronizing. I think that here will always be alternate viewpoints. <br /><br />Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-23444134890545686222014-02-13T20:00:36.324-05:002014-02-13T20:00:36.324-05:00Isn't it interesting how the thoughts of one m...Isn't it interesting how the thoughts of one man can have such a profound impact on philosophies that are taken for granted centuries later? I shall have to re-read some of Descartes's works in closer detail when I finish my current studies of Jesus and the New Testament. <br /><br /><i>One of many things that I find of great interest here is how Descartes’s view of God flies in the face of the entire “faith must be opposed to reason” mindset.</i><br /><br />In <i>The Meaning of Jesus</i>, Marcus Borg calls this dichotomy between faith and logic the "secular worldview" and suggests that this worldview will be only transient. We've gone so many centuries taking for granted that faith does not defy logic that he's confident this philosophy won't last. That some day people will look back on it as "quaint." Only time will tell! <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01974988315420539840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-75129727613263649302014-02-13T19:53:44.913-05:002014-02-13T19:53:44.913-05:00Thanks Naida. Indeed even when I disagree with the...Thanks Naida. Indeed even when I disagree with them, pondering and discussing the contentions of these thinkers is enlightening and fun.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-15830493026363934502014-02-13T18:18:41.296-05:002014-02-13T18:18:41.296-05:00*of philosophers*of philosophersThe Bookwormhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10217390642323530030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-35711648686194987962014-02-13T18:17:41.644-05:002014-02-13T18:17:41.644-05:00Wonderful post Brian. I do think that the ideas th...Wonderful post Brian. I do think that the ideas that philosophers like Descartes do make for fascinating discussions.<br />The Bookwormhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10217390642323530030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-29121399815072194312014-02-12T22:38:56.946-05:002014-02-12T22:38:56.946-05:00Hi Jane - Thanks for the good word!
Over the pas...Hi Jane - Thanks for the good word!<br /><br /><br />Over the past few years s I have read a bit more of the challenging stuff it has gotten much easier. I really love delving into these writers' works and exploring their ideas.<br /><br />Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-11710172797711784112014-02-12T21:46:02.592-05:002014-02-12T21:46:02.592-05:00Challenging reading--reminds me of my college days...Challenging reading--reminds me of my college days. I really enjoy reading your posts and your approach to reading and the topics you choose to delve into.JaneGShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11094501834387622997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-50428842257700389032014-02-11T09:40:26.322-05:002014-02-11T09:40:26.322-05:00Thanks Tracy - I think that this sort of stuff is ...Thanks Tracy - I think that this sort of stuff is the material that great conversations are made of!Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-69262150483804245892014-02-11T09:24:45.182-05:002014-02-11T09:24:45.182-05:00Well done, you have done a great job of explaining...Well done, you have done a great job of explaining what is obviously a very profound essay. Though not a particularly philosophical myself I know this post will prompt much discussion between me and my husband who is.Felicity Grace Terryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17852843882007267665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-30188479070777464362014-02-10T22:50:29.896-05:002014-02-10T22:50:29.896-05:00Hi Sharon - thanks for your insightful comment.
...Hi Sharon - thanks for your insightful comment. <br /><br />I agree that there is an inherent sense of right and wrong, morals and justice in us. I would argue that this sense in inherent in our Genes. It is one of the things that increases our chance for survival by facilitating cooperation as well as providing a set of rules that help us interact and work together in order to promote this survival.<br /><br /><br />I would just add two things. This particular argument, is not an argument that God does not exist, just that morality and fairness are the by product of natural processes. <br /><br />Second this is not just a clinical and cold argument. This sense of morality inherent though the work of our Genes is a wonderful thing. It is one of the things that gives value and meaning to our individual lives as well as to humanity as a whole.<br /><br /><br />Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-8026983178945061602014-02-10T18:16:54.863-05:002014-02-10T18:16:54.863-05:00I read Descartes years ago. Your fine review remi...I read Descartes years ago. Your fine review reminds me that I need to read it again.<br /><br />I thought Descartes' argument that one can't say they disbelieve in God because of a lack of proof was valid because nothing can be proven. <br /><br />He states that everything we believe in is based on the axiom that matter is real and not a hallucination. The only thing we know for certain is that because we think, we know we exist.<br /><br />In the matter of perfection I believe that Descartes was speaking-at least in one respect- of morals. Every culture has a moral code. Our laws are based on a moral code i.e. "don't kill", "don't steal" "don't defame (bear false witness") etc..Even if a culture doesn't abide by this (tribal cannibalism, for instance, or child sacrifice) we know it's wrong. That culture is a perversion of what is right and just.<br /><br />When people argue that they can't believe in a God because of all the suffering in the world, they need to ask where their sense of wrongness about this comes from.<br /><br />I agree with Descartes, we know we're imperfect (if we're honest we know this) but how can we know it, unless there is a paradigm of perfection by which to compare? Something inside us says this should not be. But if it's all we've ever known, how can we possess the idea of something better?<br /><br />Needless to say I agree with Descartes on this point.<br /><br />Thanks for your fair and thoughtful commentary, Brian. Have a good day. I look forward to your next post.Sharon Wilfonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17466621290140789056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-18068504948273276672014-02-09T20:34:21.785-05:002014-02-09T20:34:21.785-05:00Hi Guy - Though not a believer myself, I really ap...Hi Guy - Though not a believer myself, I really appreciate these reasoned arguments.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.com