tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post3456533941242689947..comments2024-02-29T02:54:19.767-05:00Comments on Babbling Books: Colonialism/Postcolonialism by Ania LoombaBrian Josephhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-14625800118141130832019-02-02T19:32:52.290-05:002019-02-02T19:32:52.290-05:00Thanks for the GREAT reply!! Hope you guys are enj...Thanks for the GREAT reply!! Hope you guys are enjoying your weekend!! <3 :)Maria Beharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13635809880830316283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-10810470412191202622019-02-02T05:31:38.566-05:002019-02-02T05:31:38.566-05:00Hi Maria – There is never a rush to comment on a b...Hi Maria – There is never a rush to comment on a blog post. <br /><br />I agree with you in that many of the drivers of colonialism such as the tendency towards violence and other forms of domination are much more prevalent in large populations of men. I also think that this is driven by genetics. I think that as better ideas and values disseminate throughout world culture, such tendencies are lessening. Though Loompa does not address this. <br /><br />You are right about the price of colonialism. The destruction of indigenous cultures was one of the many horrors involved. <br /><br />I am also completely with your moderate views. Pushing for the values of science, empathy, reason, democracy, etc., in peaceful ways, is the best way to drive progress. <br />Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-48908972667433563622019-02-02T01:33:49.507-05:002019-02-02T01:33:49.507-05:00Well, it took me a while, but I'm back! Lol.
...Well, it took me a while, but I'm back! Lol.<br /><br />I wanted to add that I see colonialism and (unregulated) capitalism as a natural extension of the patriarchal system, which is based upon a rigid mindset -- that men are the superior gender, and, therefore, that male values are the standard to measure human behavior by. <br /><br />I take issue with the conservative position on colonialism. As you stated in this quote, "....which is that at least some aspects of colonialism were beneficial to the colonizers and the colonized." That might be true, but what was the price paid for these positive aspects? In the case of Spanish colonization, the price was much too high -- entire indigenous civilizations were wiped out, and the indigenous people themselves were either massacred or enslaved. <br /><br />Again I point to the patriarchal system, which is based on masculine values -- greed, a desire to be the "top dog", competition, oppression of what is considered "weak", such as compassion and empathy. I am not blaming ALL men here, of course, but the system that emerged from the suppression of the female gender and the values associated with it. <br /><br />I wonder if Loomba also refers to any possible connection between genetics and colonialism. Was the patriarchy an inevitable part of human history, because of the genetic component behind male aggression and an innate desire for conquest and domination? <br /><br />I agree with you that those postcolonialist theorists who attack science are totally misguided. I also agree that, at this point in time, "decolonizing" would do MUCH more harm than good. It would be totally pointless. What should be done, in my opinion, is to work within the existing systems by changing aspects of them. As you already know, I tend to be a moderate, not a radical, so I support your own moderate views. :)<br /><br />Thanks for a most thought-provoking post!! Sorry I took so long to comment again.... :(<br /><br /> Maria Beharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13635809880830316283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-16337896949156691432019-01-28T04:52:55.803-05:002019-01-28T04:52:55.803-05:00Hi Caroline - I think that a lot of arguments that...Hi Caroline - I think that a lot of arguments that evolve out of this issue arise out of how to deal with some real and interpret these problems. <br /><br />I also think that that a lot of folks embrace Marxism and envision something very different from the reality. It just seems unworkable. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-60696955782119439712019-01-28T03:28:34.428-05:002019-01-28T03:28:34.428-05:00Thus was very interesting, Brian. I never doubted ...Thus was very interesting, Brian. I never doubted colonialism to be the source of our problems. Being familiar with French and African history, I’d say there’s no doubt about it. It’s puzzling to me though, that anyone would defend Marxism. Nothing good came out of it and it was just as corrupt as Capitalism. Possibly the one Marx had in mi d, but what came out of it. Carolinehttp://beautyisasleepingcat.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-56022186793149169972019-01-24T12:52:07.863-05:002019-01-24T12:52:07.863-05:00Thanks Baili - I think that you are correct with n...Thanks Baili - I think that you are correct with no system being perfect. It is so true for capitalism.<br /><br />These things also get very complicated. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-4979775268022669792019-01-24T10:04:50.113-05:002019-01-24T10:04:50.113-05:00Your mastery over the topic is striking dear Brain...Your mastery over the topic is striking dear Brain! <br /><br />Extraordinarily done post as book offers a controversial and complicated ideas <br /><br />I admire your own thoughts over the book and agreed with all you have said about it <br /><br />World is not simple place because numerous people with different ideas makes it complicated and difficult habitat to survive on<br /><br />No matter how intellectually we pull the strings shape of life today depicts the one ultimate formula that <br /><br />"powerful survive at the end of the day and secure position to make the rules for others "<br />No system is perfect here and nor it can be unless we be able to accept and respect other's rights as we do our'sour's"<br /><br />Thank you for remarkable review bailihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06498012175058870980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-71169527941966395532019-01-23T20:17:54.093-05:002019-01-23T20:17:54.093-05:00Thanks Maria.
You raise an interesting point abou...Thanks Maria.<br /><br />You raise an interesting point about Colonialism molded the belief systems of the colonized nations. One point that Loomba makes is that colonialism molded the belief systems of both the colonized and the colonizer. This is why many theorists contend that the effects of colonialism are all pervasive.<br /><br />Regulated capitalism seems to be the best path to human prosperity and happiness. Marxism seems to lead mostly to misery. <br /><br />I think that racism was so pervasive in the past that it wrapped itself around a lot of things. Capitalism was one of those things. I do not believe that there is any deep rooted connection between capitalism and racism.<br /><br />Have a great day!<br />Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-55100237446656437942019-01-23T12:56:10.891-05:002019-01-23T12:56:10.891-05:00BRILLIANT, FASCINATING POST, BRIAN!!
This is ind...BRILLIANT, FASCINATING POST, BRIAN!! <br /><br />This is indeed a very complex topic, and it seems that no one text can possibly have all the answers as to how to approach it. <br /><br />You have written a very comprehensive post on the matter, and once again, have piqued my curiosity and interest about a book I would not normally want to read.<br /><br />Also, even though you didn't mention this in your post, I think this topic also raises the question of whether free will does in fact exist. It seems to me that colonialism, with all of the effects mentioned by Loomba, has actually molded the thinking and belief systems of those countries it has conquered. <br /><br />I am so happy to hear that you abhor Marxism just as much as I do! And, like me, you also believe in regulated capitalism. However, Loomba's assertion that capitalism and racism are related is pretty disturbing. I had not thought of this before, and would definitely like to explore it!<br /><br />I have much more to say about this post, but am a bit strapped for time at the moment. So I'll come back later!<br /><br />Thanks for another of your EXCELLENT, insightful posts!! <br /><br />Hope you're having a nice day!! <3 :) <br />Maria Beharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13635809880830316283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-9495209240220609002019-01-22T16:17:30.166-05:002019-01-22T16:17:30.166-05:00Hi Andrew - I suspect that there are two things. I...Hi Andrew - I suspect that there are two things. I do think that post - modernism has gotten somewhat more extreme over the past few years. But I also think that Loompa emphasis some of the more extreme thinkers. I may read Said soon. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-40646447246969897932019-01-22T14:21:31.293-05:002019-01-22T14:21:31.293-05:00Hi Brian,
Wow, this is strange - it's not a vi...Hi Brian,<br />Wow, this is strange - it's not a view of post-colonialism that I recognise at all. Then again, most of my reading on the subject is quite out of date - the earlier thinkers like Edward Said and Homi Bhabha. I remember Said, in particular, as being quite critical of Marxism as well as capitalism, and arguing for a recognition of the Eurocentrism of much scientific work rather than for discarding the scientific method altogether. I wonder if these are the views of this particular author, or whether the discipline as a whole has taken a different turn in more recent years. Andrew Blackmanhttps://andrewblackman.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-22573535338711622272019-01-21T17:33:10.888-05:002019-01-21T17:33:10.888-05:00Thanks RT. - I am partiall to New Criticism myself...Thanks RT. - I am partiall to New Criticism myself. Though I am OK with the newer schools of criticism when they stay somewhat moderate. When they try to reorder the world I think that they start to get us into trouble. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-76562912182592589422019-01-21T17:30:07.222-05:002019-01-21T17:30:07.222-05:00Thanks Stefanie. I agree that we could do without ...Thanks Stefanie. I agree that we could do without Colonialist tendencies going forward. I think that our best hope for the planet is to use capitalism to work towards a green and none carbon revolution of sorts. It will require us to do capitalism differently from the way we have done it. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-89708210346168253712019-01-21T15:26:55.990-05:002019-01-21T15:26:55.990-05:00I thought I had commented on this really interesti...I thought I had commented on this really interesting post but I see that I never managed it. Really enjoyed your thoughtful comments. I'm not sure Marxism is the answer to colonialism and capitalism. Both systems have been and continue to be detrimental on a global scale, but historically the places that have tried to create a Marxist system have mostly fallen into various kinds of authoritarian forms of government and perpetuated horrific crimes too. And if postcolonial thinkers are as insular as you indicate they are, I can't say that I would trust them to put forth any practical theories or ideas for transformation. Stefaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14943596258182968212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-76924194015273952052019-01-19T13:16:20.922-05:002019-01-19T13:16:20.922-05:00A very good posting and analysis .... during my MA...A very good posting and analysis .... during my MA in English, I had to tolerate a lot of lit theory and criticism.... I never was won over to colonialism and post-colonialism .... I.remain an unreformed New Critic .... <br />https://rtmarginalis.blogspot.com/<br />Tim<br />RTDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17113953356514605424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-5648123316934098522019-01-17T21:47:20.464-05:002019-01-17T21:47:20.464-05:00Hi Susan- In the past, capitalism, like almost eve...Hi Susan- In the past, capitalism, like almost every other institution, was untwined with racism. However, I am convinced that it is not inherently racist. <br /><br />Loomba acknowledges that pre colonial societies had problems. With that, I believe that not every theorist concedes that. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-23172522820528034202019-01-17T18:49:06.930-05:002019-01-17T18:49:06.930-05:00Wow there is a lot to think about regarding the ma...Wow there is a lot to think about regarding the many facets of postcolonialism. It seems capitalistic policies can and have been racist but is capitalism inherently so? I just don't know. Thanks for talking about this author's ideas. I have been to Africa so I have seen colonialism's after effects but at some point it wasn't perfect before that either. Surely more needs to be done to move beyond it too. thecuecardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08870323589682197091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-87922814613261065832019-01-15T21:21:11.831-05:002019-01-15T21:21:11.831-05:00Hi Suko - This being used as a textbook is interes...Hi Suko - This being used as a textbook is interesting. It seems a good introduction to the subject but it also continues a lot of opinions. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-43706254507734316922019-01-15T19:43:33.824-05:002019-01-15T19:43:33.824-05:00Brian Joseph,
There is a lot to contemplate in th...Brian Joseph,<br /><br />There is a lot to contemplate in this post re colonialism and postcolonialism. It's interesting that this book is used as a textbook, although you call it "a work of social and political philosophy", and say that it's "an excellent introduction" to postcolonialism. Now I'm eager to learn more. Thanks for your honest and thoughtful commentary about this book! Sukohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11893742747135555499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-5834364718550996552019-01-15T14:46:58.346-05:002019-01-15T14:46:58.346-05:00Thanks Tracy - I do delve Rgsbks into some crazy s...Thanks Tracy - I do delve Rgsbks into some crazy stuff! I love exploring ideas. Glad to hear that my posts get the mental juices flowing. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-39197933391288414432019-01-15T11:11:42.900-05:002019-01-15T11:11:42.900-05:00My goodness! You do review some deep books.
Once...My goodness! You do review some deep books. <br /><br />Once again thank you for such a thoughtful and considered post. Possibly not a book I'd read but I love that I always come away from Babbling Books with something to think about.Felicity Grace Terryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17852843882007267665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-91660260176072244322019-01-13T13:23:01.368-05:002019-01-13T13:23:01.368-05:00Hi Judy - I think that it is a great thing that fo...Hi Judy - I think that it is a great thing that folks from all over the world are now producing books that are readily available to all. You raise good point, the repression and injustice that went along with colonization were not invented by Europeans, they are ingrained in human history. What I think id significant is that the Europeans had enough power to colonize much of the world for a period of time and thus have a profound effect on so much. Without a doubt folks will adapt what is popular in order to benefit themsBrian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-78007518770275039672019-01-13T12:33:02.749-05:002019-01-13T12:33:02.749-05:00I learned much from your review. I have thought lo...I learned much from your review. I have thought long and hard about colonialism because of My Big Fat Reading Project, reading books (mostly novels) set in my lifetime. Also now that the formerly colonized countries are producing literature that finally get translated into English, I have heard the voices of the colonized. It is this big tangled mess of conquest and economically driven views of the world that play a big part in climate change as we experience it now. An endlessly complicated history of events which did not just begin in Europe. Think of Ghengis Khan, Alexander the Great, the Roman Empire, the Japanese, the Chinese. It is curious to think about how government and business, which after all are made up of people, adopt the prevailing views but I think mostly those views are self-serving and based on excesses of power and greed. So you set my thoughts on a ramble and that is good!Judy Kruegerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11632346091869688862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-91803223710242971942019-01-13T12:16:26.827-05:002019-01-13T12:16:26.827-05:00Thanks James. I am trying to read more things that...Thanks James. I am trying to read more things that I disagree with this year. I am familiar with the Classical Liberal worldview. I fit more closely into what in America is labeled as liberal. I find that these liberal views to mw more and more in conflict with postmodernist thinking.<br /><br />I must read Hannah Arendt soon. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-56677732364466692022019-01-13T10:20:57.484-05:002019-01-13T10:20:57.484-05:00I am impressed with your thorough review and admir...I am impressed with your thorough review and admire your willingness to explore views with which you primarily disagree. I consider myself a classical liberal with views similar to those of Hayek and would find it difficult to wade through a book like this one. Another thoughtful analysis of Imperialism (colonialism) can be found in Hannah Arendt's magisterial tome, <i>The Origins of Totalitarianism</i>. Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00561320676355168336noreply@blogger.com