tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post6302581788331645322..comments2024-02-29T02:54:19.767-05:00Comments on Babbling Books: Just TalkingBrian Josephhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-25542147743078575582014-06-29T17:02:13.473-04:002014-06-29T17:02:13.473-04:00Hi Maria - More great thoughts!
One thing that I ...Hi Maria - More great thoughts!<br /><br />One thing that I did not mean to say, my view are not always or even often in the middle.<br /><br />For instance, I am adamantly Pro - Choice and in the US I strongly favor and the Democrats. Yet I think I really understand the Pro - Life position and believe folks who hold it are good intentioned. I think that each side is just emphasizing a different aspect of morality. This is true of many other issues, We tend to label folks with differing viewpoints as immoral when we just hold opposing moral codes. I may think that it better to adhere to my code, but that is not the same thing as Demonizing the other side.<br /><br />I really think that good intentioned folks really can have great conversations. I bet you that you and I could even where we disagree :)Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-80473479425304347362014-06-29T16:32:52.800-04:002014-06-29T16:32:52.800-04:00Another very interesting post!
Your ideas as to w...Another very interesting post!<br /><br />Your ideas as to what constitutes an ideal conversation are very idealistic, as well as altruistic. I commend you for espousing them, but alas, human nature being what it is, such conversations are, I think, very rare indeed!<br /><br />When I was in my early twenties, I would have very loud arguments with my mother, who is a staunch conservative. At the time, I was much more liberal than she was, and her views seemed very stifling to me, especially in regards to women's rights. I fiercely believed my views were right, and hers, wrong. Period. In fact, I perceived my parents as being a benign totalitarian government back then....lol.<br /><br />As I've gotten older, I've learned to have more compassion toward people with divergent views. After all, as you say, it's not whether one is 'right' or 'wrong', but whether truth is being sought.<br /><br />Also, nowadays I'm much more moderate in my views. Because of this, I have become increasingly aware of just how intolerant toward each other Republicans and Democrats are. Each party just LOVES to demonize the other. Of course, self-analysis is by no means easy, or comfortable, but if each party were to engage in more of it, they'd realize that the truth does not reside EXCLUSIVELY with either one of them. In fact, I see each party as being guilty of glaring errors. Democrats, for instance, are very interested in upholding minority rights and protecting the environment, but care not a whit about the rights of the unborn, These are adamantly defended by Republicans, who, incredibly enough, are totally indifferent to the system of public education, without which the freedoms they defend would ironically be impossible. I also dislike their total indifference to women's rights and the environment, as well as their insistence on total freedom from government regulations for corporations.<br /><br />End result: I am registered as an Independent voter. Therefore, I vote for the candidate, and not the party.<br /><br />In reference to religion, I feel the same way I do about political parties, although I still identify as basically Catholic. Those who are ardent believers love to think that they are on the side of truth, but even a cursory reading of the Old Testament will reveal some VERY disturbing things about the Judeo-Christian God..... On the other hand, absolute atheism seems to me to be a highly unpleasant way to live. I have yet to resolve this conflict within myself, so therefore I would not want to be involved in any debate with a believer on one side, and an atheist on the other, as it would turn out to be impossible for me to say who was 'right' and who was 'wrong'. <br /><br />Ultimately, since all of us share a common humanity, I do believe that this should take precedence over any intellectual disagreements that might arise. Ironically, I'm being just as idealistic as you here! Lol,<br /><br />There's one point on which I am NOT willing to concede that my opponent might be 'right', and that is on the subject of abortion. Where a human life is concerned, I don't think one can "agree to disagree". Beyond this one point, though, I am willing to consider arguments "from the other side".<br /><br />Thanks for another great post!! : ) Maria Beharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13635809880830316283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-50365228308638297122014-06-06T09:36:34.342-04:002014-06-06T09:36:34.342-04:00Hi Miguel - Indeed the internet would as well as a...Hi Miguel - Indeed the internet would as well as a lot of other places!Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-1274443701655958352014-06-06T07:53:50.744-04:002014-06-06T07:53:50.744-04:00Ah, Brian, this is a good primer for holding debat...Ah, Brian, this is a good primer for holding debates, and the internet would certainly be a better and more tolerant place if we enforced it.LMRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08538873868140070018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-53801895867919098472014-06-01T14:01:36.893-04:002014-06-01T14:01:36.893-04:00Hi Delia - I would say that I do like to get invol...Hi Delia - I would say that I do like to get involved with long in depth discussions. However if it is all debate it gets tiresome and is usually pointless.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-46794939108670181352014-06-01T13:35:47.250-04:002014-06-01T13:35:47.250-04:00A good conversation can be very refreshing but peo...A good conversation can be very refreshing but people who insist on proving their opinions are always right can be quite tiresome. I dislike getting lost in long debates - sometimes a few carefully chosen words can mean so much more than a thousand explanations. Delia (Postcards from Asia)http://www.wrongspelling.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-29892140923609776992014-05-31T21:04:06.176-04:002014-05-31T21:04:06.176-04:00Thanks so much Jane. It sounds like we are in agre...Thanks so much Jane. It sounds like we are in agreement on most of these issues. When I was younger I liked big discussion groups. Now I like them small.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-44045048829649270452014-05-31T18:14:28.931-04:002014-05-31T18:14:28.931-04:00I have never liked "debate for debate's s...I have never liked "debate for debate's sake" or the "devil's advocate" approach to a discussion. For me, I like to discuss in order to learn, which means that there are no "winners" in a conversation, only expanded horizons and new perspectives.<br /><br />I hate being talked at instead of talked to.<br /><br />I have a colleague who in a conversation will introduce his point by saying, "let me build on your point..." I like that. It means he has been listening and has something to contribute not just wants to air his opinion.<br /><br />With regards to the whole speaking up issue--I like small groups as opposed to large forums--and really speak in public, unless it's my job.<br /><br />Great blog post, Brian. Discussions about discussions are definitely interesting. :)JaneGShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11094501834387622997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-28228011090989343132014-05-30T10:36:03.197-04:002014-05-30T10:36:03.197-04:00Hi Lindsay - Thanks so much.
I actually no longe...Hi Lindsay - Thanks so much. <br /><br />I actually no longer like big groups for a conversation. I find two or three to be best. <br /><br />It think that it is great to try to speak up more. It is a nicer feeling to do so if one is with people that they are comfortable with.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-77591692257561818712014-05-30T09:48:12.488-04:002014-05-30T09:48:12.488-04:00What a thoughtful, and thought-provoking post, Bri...What a thoughtful, and thought-provoking post, Brian. I will be another one returning to read it again. I'm someone who is often very quiet and the listener in conversations rather than someone who manages to join in and speak a lot, but it's something I'm trying to practise. Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08731930823596505781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-18697227905399936082014-05-28T04:23:04.078-04:002014-05-28T04:23:04.078-04:00Hi Lucy - Thanks so much. As I mentioned, this is...Hi Lucy - Thanks so much. As I mentioned, this is a bit of an ideal and in retrospect I wish some of my conversations were a bit calmer.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-32346544032830611742014-05-28T03:50:57.068-04:002014-05-28T03:50:57.068-04:00One of my favourite posts by you, thank you Brian!...One of my favourite posts by you, thank you Brian! This is definitely one to bookmark and come back to - you've made so many good points. I particularly agree with you on the value of calm and thoughtful conversation.Lucy (Tolstoy Therapy)http://www.tolstoytherapy.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-40778699488940933562014-05-27T13:44:12.615-04:002014-05-27T13:44:12.615-04:00Hi Guy - I have seen several of Rohmer's films...Hi Guy - I have seen several of Rohmer's films and I really like then. Speaking of movies, I must mention the ultimate conversation film, My Dinner with Andre. <br /><br />I had some great conversations in collage too. Luckily I am still in touch with some of my livelier friends.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-55888176941473546512014-05-27T13:34:34.250-04:002014-05-27T13:34:34.250-04:00Hi Caroline - I may be totally wrong on this, but ...Hi Caroline - I may be totally wrong on this, but in the back of my mind I have the impression the in your part of the world folks are a bit more civil. On the US, over the past several years all too many people, on all sides are,downright nasty especially when it comes to controversial issues.<br /><br />Agreed about tribalism, with that said, I feel that if I am not careful that I can fall into a bit of it myself.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-2155028547755140062014-05-27T10:42:45.242-04:002014-05-27T10:42:45.242-04:00Some of the best discussions I have ever had have ...Some of the best discussions I have ever had have been at university. <br /><br />Have you ever watched the Films of Eric Rohmer? If not you might want to give him a go as his films are often full of conversations between a few people. Some people think his films are boring, but for me, they're fascinating. It's like being in a room listening to people talk.Guy Savagehttp://www.swiftlytiltingplante.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-67561328164495922022014-05-27T10:31:17.455-04:002014-05-27T10:31:17.455-04:00Your ideal conversation sounds right up my street....Your ideal conversation sounds right up my street. <br />I must say I don't very often get into heated discussions in which people want to be absolutely right but it may well be that I just avoid those with whom I will clash. On the other hand I tend to be provocative. <br />Tribalism is indeed a big problem but I tend to point it out because I feel when people identify with somthing that i would call tribal they simply stop thinking and I will always tell them. I don't enjoy talking to a robot. Carolinehttp://beautyisasleepingcat.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-40254308929518526922014-05-27T10:06:52.458-04:002014-05-27T10:06:52.458-04:00Hi Tracy- Thanks so much.
You are so right on th...Hi Tracy- Thanks so much. <br /><br />You are so right on the issue of asking questions. I think that staying silent when someone is talking about something that one does not know much about is usually seen as being unknowing and uninterested. The way to learn is to ask questions in such situations. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-27657934087483830412014-05-27T08:41:32.875-04:002014-05-27T08:41:32.875-04:00Another wonderfully thought provoking post. I agre...Another wonderfully thought provoking post. I agree it is so important to listen and, if the need arises, to agree to disagree for as you rightfully say we all have our own opinions on things.<br /><br />I also like to question things as though you may be regarded as 'foolish' for not knowing something far better this than remain in ignorance for the sake of not wanting to appear foolish.<br />Felicity Grace Terryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17852843882007267665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-72812221207095844972014-05-27T04:10:18.012-04:002014-05-27T04:10:18.012-04:00Hi Suko - I think that many, myself included, forg...Hi Suko - I think that many, myself included, forget just how important it is to listen. It is al least half the equation.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-31384974982969860672014-05-27T01:02:18.118-04:002014-05-27T01:02:18.118-04:00A good conversationalist is also a good, intereste...A good conversationalist is also a good, <i>interested</i> listener. It sounds as if you are both. Thoughtful and interesting post, as always. Sukohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11893742747135555499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-34872723212359410772014-05-26T15:52:42.093-04:002014-05-26T15:52:42.093-04:00Hi Naida - Thanks so much.
I agree that the judge...Hi Naida - Thanks so much.<br /><br />I agree that the judgement thing is a major obstacle to civility and communication. I find that I have to be careful to minimize doing that.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-73564211502414011952014-05-26T12:37:07.156-04:002014-05-26T12:37:07.156-04:00From being a regular here at your blog Brian, I wo...From being a regular here at your blog Brian, I would definitely imagine you as being a wonderful conversationalist.<br />I agree, expressing one's views in a civil way is important. It's a respect thing as well. I'm also big on not judging and not being judged. I don't want to be in the middle of a conversation with someone, only to have them judge or make assumptions.<br />Enjoy your day! The Bookwormhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10217390642323530030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-57381073792108585542014-05-25T22:11:58.910-04:002014-05-25T22:11:58.910-04:00Hi Violet - Something that I hope that I conveyed ...Hi Violet - Something that I hope that I conveyed in my post is that I have not always achieved this ideal. However as I get older I am doing much better. If others are civil I would say that I do pretty good. If others are obnoxious I must admit to reciprocating at times.<br /><br />The tribalism thing is big. Folks really identify with sides when it comes to politics, religion and social issues. That makes conversation really difficult.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-85316434868910745452014-05-25T22:00:40.094-04:002014-05-25T22:00:40.094-04:00You sound like a measured and thoughful conversati...You sound like a measured and thoughful conversationalist. In my experience, there are not too many people like you around. I find that most people want and need to be RIGHT about everything, and this leads to arguing rather than discussion. It would be good if people were more tolerant of diverse beliefs and opinions, but I think that goes against humankind's tendency towards tribalism and conformity. I don't talk to people in real life about religion, because it just leads to conflict. Violethttp://still-life-with-books.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-16825527334941603832014-05-25T19:48:28.918-04:002014-05-25T19:48:28.918-04:00Hi James -Indeed when folks, as they often do begi...Hi James -Indeed when folks, as they often do begin speaking in disparaging or insulting ways of people that they disagree with it is difficult to have any meaningful conversation, thus my comment about wasted time.<br /><br /><br />i do have a few friends who differ with me, mostly on politics that I am able to achieve these really fruitful talks with.<br /><br /> I have done the devil's advocate things with friends too.<br /><br />Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.com