tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post7391123566054694687..comments2024-02-29T02:54:19.767-05:00Comments on Babbling Books: The Rainbow by D.H. LawrenceBrian Josephhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-45031869738908734712012-09-07T05:44:57.374-04:002012-09-07T05:44:57.374-04:00Thank you so much VB! It really is so nice of you...Thank you so much VB! It really is so nice of you to do this! I am honored and I am touched! Of course I accept the award and will pass it on. <br /><br />Thanks again!<br />Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-35759184177371160532012-09-07T05:30:28.708-04:002012-09-07T05:30:28.708-04:00I guess I have missed many..gtreat review as alway...I guess I have missed many..gtreat review as always., You make me wish to be in your shoes while reading seeing through very vantage reaching the essence of it..And I know you are not a kind of person who expects acknowledgement but I cant help but to nominate you for One lovely blog award..I only wish I could nominate you for many more...Your reviews are very insightful and thought provoking... You can check http://booksformee.blogspot.in/2012/09/one-lovely-blogging-award.html..I hope you accept this....vbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01815931257531886393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-68792575449043427302012-09-06T23:21:52.380-04:002012-09-06T23:21:52.380-04:00Hi,
I'm the editor for the Books section on B...Hi,<br /><br />I'm the editor for the Books section on Before It's News, and I came across your website Babbling Books. <br /><br />It’s fantastic! We'd love to republish your RSS feed on our site, accompanied by a description of your blog and link back to your website. You'd benefit from having some of our millions of readers see your posts and go through to your blog.<br /><br />Let me know if this sounds like something you're interested in!<br /><br />Best regards,<br />Sebastian Clouth<br />SClouth@beforeitsnews.comSebastian Clouthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18144017863384270577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-52281848003719624382012-09-04T21:13:30.041-04:002012-09-04T21:13:30.041-04:00Thanks for your kind words Amy.
I might have shi...Thanks for your kind words Amy. <br /><br />I might have shied away from this myself as in some ways it sounds a little soap operas like. However I heard that there were many philosophical aspects to it and that is what drew me towards reading it. I am glad that I did.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-46545962332512386412012-09-04T14:10:03.416-04:002012-09-04T14:10:03.416-04:00Fantastic and in depth review! This is a book that...Fantastic and in depth review! This is a book that I really wouldn't have picked up on my own, but it sounds like it's worth a read. Thanks for the review!Amyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18102250492155489672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-17428528098149396532012-09-04T08:58:33.387-04:002012-09-04T08:58:33.387-04:00Thanks for your nice comments Violet.
I know such...Thanks for your nice comments Violet.<br /><br />I know such a limited amount about Lawrence's personal life other then a few little articles that I read here and there. I guess that many writers do lift real people for their characters. Phillip Roth not only does it, but practically admits to doing it in the novels that he does it in!<br /><br />I will say that so much of the characterization in this book is internal that a lot of it must have been the product of Lawrence's imagination.<br /><br />The misogyny thing is absolutely bewildering to me after Lawrence's creation of women of such depth and intelligence in this book.<br />Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-43808291047366230592012-09-04T02:39:25.755-04:002012-09-04T02:39:25.755-04:00I have a bit of a conflicted relationship with Law...I have a bit of a conflicted relationship with Lawrence. He based many of his characters and plots on real people and their lives, which was rather mean-spirited, I think, considering they were his friends and neighbours. I tend to go along with the idea that he was gay, and misogynistic in real life. He didn't treat women well at all. I'm glad you enjoyed The Rainbow, as it augers well for your future encounters with his books. It's interesting to read them alongside a biography and see just how much he "lifted" from people's real life stories. Nevertheless, he was an iconoclast and the world would be a different place had he not come along and challenged the prevailing morals of the day. A lot of British people got caught up by Fascist ideology, which I don't think should be held against them as they didn't have the benefit of hindsight. I have been completing a Lawrence marathon read for a while now, starting at the beginning and re-reading all his major novels. I wonder if they have morphed into something different since I last read them? It's amazing what a few years of maturity can do for a reader. :) I enjoyed your post; I like the way you dig deep inside books and don't just read them superficially so you can cross them off your list. :)Violethttp://still-life-with-books.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-9232455993973434982012-09-03T18:59:16.983-04:002012-09-03T18:59:16.983-04:00Hi Maria - I had read your commentary on Anna Kare...Hi Maria - I had read your commentary on Anna Karennia so let me kind of lay out the morality of the main characters in this book. Of course this is only my opinion and we could have points where you and I differ.<br /><br /> I believe that the worst thing here is Ursula's treatment of Skrebensky, which is torturous and sometimes cruel. In addition Ursula's farther comes close to infidelity, but does not actually go through it. The various couples lake often fight like cats and dogs, sometimes being insensitive and cruel to each other.<br /><br />At least for me, that is the extent of problematical behavior.<br /><br />If you do give it a read I would live to hear what you think!<br /><br />Thanks agin for your great comments and observations.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-25573256727577362332012-09-03T15:51:09.913-04:002012-09-03T15:51:09.913-04:00I totally agree with your last statement! Nowaday...I totally agree with your last statement! Nowadays, it seems that a LOT of newly-published books sprinkle the text with profanity. This is most likely due to D.H. Lawrence's influence, since he was the first one to do this sort of thing. Since you say there's no vulgar language in "The Rainbow", I might just try reading it, if only for the philosophical passages, although it sounds like the relationships between the verious characters will make for some fascinating reading, as well!<br /><br />On the other hand, this might very well turn out to be "another ANNA KARENINA experience' for me...lol.Maria Beharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13635809880830316283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-46929184473856145922012-09-03T12:51:52.190-04:002012-09-03T12:51:52.190-04:00Hi Maria,
Thank you for your in depth and insight...Hi Maria,<br /><br />Thank you for your in depth and insightful comments!<br /><br />Thanks also and again for your oh so kind words! I would just add that sometimes my commentary is not really comprehensive as I sometimes focus on aspects of a book that I found interesting and ignore some important points. Especially with this novel I could write blog after blog after blog discussing the many angles.<br /><br />I totally agree that if taken as a whole Lawrence's philosophies are unrealistic and unworkable. In particular you are so very correct regarding the viciousness that humans often exhibit in their natural state. As I alluded to however, Lawrence makes some really important points and if we water down his admonitions a bit, I think that they can be helpful for both individuals and for humanity.<br /><br />This novel was singled out at the time for profanity. I cannot speak for most of his other books, but there was no graphic description of sex or vulgar language here. At most there were a few passages where things were described in a subtle and round about ways. It is so funny how the perception of profanity has changed!<br /><br />Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-81684361617554490552012-09-03T12:35:34.231-04:002012-09-03T12:35:34.231-04:00Hi Ryan - Do not feel bad about Lawrence. There ar...Hi Ryan - Do not feel bad about Lawrence. There are so many authors to read! It is impossible to cover them all. There are so many gaps in what i have read, some I may never get around to plugging!Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-28170670015861715282012-09-03T12:21:32.385-04:002012-09-03T12:21:32.385-04:00This is such a brilliant review! I love the way y...This is such a brilliant review! I love the way you write - your style is flowing and your sentences so polished! Also, your analysis of the book is thorough and precisely on target, as well as well-balanced. <br /><br />One of the things I enjoy the most about your reviews is that you point out exactly what you liked and didn't like about the book. In this particular case, you've given us an excellent overview of what this book is all about, including your own views on Lawrence's complex philosophy. <br /><br />This certainly sounds like a challenging, as well as rewarding, read! The one element I find uncomfortable is that Ursula has a female lover at one point. Aside from that, though, I think I would enjoy reading this novel, if only to find my own refutations to some of Lawrence's paradoxically contradictory views. For instance, his insistence on a return to nature, together with his horror at the effects of industrialism, bears investigating. I would say that this 'return' to nature was impossible even in Lawrence's own day. Once the process of industrialization is set in motion, it's pretty much unstoppable. Besides, human beings in their natural state can be even more vicious and brutal than they are in an industrialized society. It seems that Lawrence was influenced to some extent by Rousseau's ridiculously idealized 'noble savage'.<br /><br />I've never read Lawrence. The only thing I know about him is that he was the first writer to use vulgar language, as well as graphic depictions of sex, in his novels. Those are also elements I am uncomfortable with. But perhaps, were I to read his work, I would find it far tamer than "Fifty Shades of Grey", to mention a recently notorious book. <br /><br />Thanks to your detailed review, I think I might just take on this novel! It certainly promises to give me plenty of food for thought! Besides, from the excerpt you included, I can see that Lawrence's style will be a pleasure to read!<br /><br />Thank you so much for such an excellent review!! : )Maria Beharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13635809880830316283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-55813246462270470562012-09-03T11:51:50.158-04:002012-09-03T11:51:50.158-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07998996750944114185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-69468109838082752002012-09-03T11:51:49.368-04:002012-09-03T11:51:49.368-04:00This is where I admit that I have never read D.H. ...This is where I admit that I have never read D.H. Lawrence. Oh, the shame of it all.Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07998996750944114185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-39459901548869579422012-09-02T21:24:12.753-04:002012-09-02T21:24:12.753-04:00Though I have never scene them I believe that the ...Though I have never scene them I believe that the movie versions of both The Rainbow as well as Women in Love were directed by the late Ken Russell. I usually like his work though it is at times a little too off the wall.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-75823209816262327512012-09-02T20:23:08.497-04:002012-09-02T20:23:08.497-04:00Brian: there's also a film with the obscenity ...Brian: there's also a film with the obscenity trial for Lady C.s lover as as a backdrop. The film version of Women in Love isn't bad.Guy Savagehttp://www.swiftlytiltingplanet.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-17815875430383996992012-09-02T10:35:49.712-04:002012-09-02T10:35:49.712-04:00Hi Himdari - I to very much love these authors who...Hi Himdari - I to very much love these authors who strive for these monumental heights.<br /><br />Yes you remember the "weird dance" passage well, it is one of the most interesting of the book! What I think about the return to nature thing is that Lawrence is on to something but that he goes too far. As you point out he sees this return as an existential imperative that must be taken all the way. Instead I think if we went a part of the way, it will not save humanity, but it might help us be a little happier. I guess I believe in an extremely watered down version of what Lawrence's philosophies.<br /><br />The passages that you quoted are incredible, Lawrence wrote such sweeping and grand prose, that reflected his sweeping and grand view of the universe.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-55007431719940336552012-09-02T05:50:52.707-04:002012-09-02T05:50:52.707-04:00Hello Brian, I read a lot of Lawrence when I was t...Hello Brian, I read a lot of Lawrence when I was too young to take it in adequately, and reading through your post, I think I really need to revisit work. Quite apart from anything else, The Rainbow and Women in Love are big ambitious books with a scope almost megalomaniacally vast: I like that ... I like authors who aim so high. I also love the passion with which Lawrence invests his work. But at the same time, I don't always understand Lawrence: I can understand his horror of modernity and of industrialism, but feel that "returning to nature" is, as Lawrence himself must have known, an idealistic pipe dream; and if that is the only hope for human salvation, then humanity is doomed. Perhaps Lawrence knew that as well. But Lawrence goes further than that, I think: he presents forces within ourselves that, for want of a better word, we may refer to as "mystic": these forces come to the surface in passages such as the one where the pregnant Anna does that weird dance (I *am* remembering this correctly, aren't I?) And when he delves into such areas, I must admit he loses me. Perhaps my mind is too prosaic to follow Lawrence where he leads us.<br /><br />But there is a magnificence about his greatest achievements. Right at the start of The Rainbow, we read: "But heaven and earth were teeming about them, and how should this cease?" And we know right away we are not reading an ordinary family saga. That sentence seems to place us in the middle of a Van Gogh canvas, where the entire world amd all that it contains appear living, sentient beings: "teeming" is precisely the right word. And then, in the magnificent closing passage, as Lawrence describes the triumph of the rainbow over the ugliness of human creations, we have a line striking in its Biblical simplicity: "And the rainbow stood upon the earth." Isn't that just magnificent? It is at times like this I get some inkling of the power of Lawrence's writing.<br /><br />Lawrence was not always, admittedly, at his best (I agree with Guy about Lady Chatterley's Lover), but when he *was* at his best, he was magnificent. I still feel though that his concerns aren't really mine, and I still find it difficult to follow him into those mysterious areas of human experience into which he leads us.<br /><br />I look forward to your thoughts on Wmen in Love.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-1284537227527046682012-09-01T21:19:51.510-04:002012-09-01T21:19:51.510-04:00Hi Guy - I have not read Lady Chatterly's Lo...Hi Guy - I have not read Lady Chatterly's Lover, it seems that people either love or hate that one.<br /><br />I actually started Women in Love a few weeks ago but when I realized that it was a sequel to this one I put it down. I really will be starting it, I just need to get through a couple of other books first.<br /><br />I know that there have been several movies made based on Lawrence's books including this one, i have not seen any of them however.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-13151816071475881992012-09-01T17:49:29.841-04:002012-09-01T17:49:29.841-04:00I was going to ask if you'd read Women in Love...I was going to ask if you'd read Women in Love but you answered my question in the post. <br /><br />I LOATHED Lady C. Lover. I may be in the minority opinion here, but such is life. On the other hand, I have re-read Women in Love several times. <br /><br />I should read this one too as I have a feeling I'd like it. Funnily enough I have a film about Lawrence coming up in my netflix queue. <br /><br />Thanks, BrianGuy Savagehttp://www.swiftlytiltingplanet.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-12502506545120928362012-09-01T15:48:20.672-04:002012-09-01T15:48:20.672-04:00Hi Caroline - Lawrence is definitely a rebel. How...Hi Caroline - Lawrence is definitely a rebel. However I think of true free spirits as being a un-judgmental, he is very judgmental here. <br /><br />I read that his style is described as early modernist. In these books his sentences and paragraphs are often really long and run on. He will sometimes use the same word multiple times in a sentence. I think that he is trying to portray what I describe as "the stream of life" thing. This however is not overbearing like some other writers. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-17253816204529204612012-09-01T13:59:07.713-04:002012-09-01T13:59:07.713-04:00I have both this and the sequel. I used to be a hu...I have both this and the sequel. I used to be a huge D.H.Lawrence fan but always get weird reactions. I could never detect and traces of misogyny in his work I still don't know where that came from. I felt he was a free spirit in many of his vies. I read his letters and quite abit of others things. I even liked Lady chatterly, both versions and found the differences very interesting. <br />I really want to read this. Ursula sounds like a very interesting character. <br />He is one of those rare authors whose books and whose life seem interesting. thanks for reminding me. <br />I read him when I was quite young and can absolutely not remember his style at all. Carolinehttp://beautyisasleepingcat.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com