tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post8750972621204293200..comments2024-02-29T02:54:19.767-05:00Comments on Babbling Books: Gödel, Escher, Bach by Douglas R. HofstadterBrian Josephhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-85130617843324686702018-11-13T07:51:16.201-05:002018-11-13T07:51:16.201-05:00Hi Baili - Human nature and the conscious mind is ...Hi Baili - Human nature and the conscious mind is one of the most interesting subjects out there. With that, this was a tough one. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-37743327458101125152018-11-13T07:49:27.757-05:002018-11-13T07:49:27.757-05:00Hi again WP - I have read a few books on conscious...Hi again WP - I have read a few books on consciousness. Though not as tough as this one they were all fairly challenging. They all touched upon philosophy and I recall that being the most challenging thing about them. I liked Danial Dennet’s From Bacteria to Bach and David Chalmers’s The Conscious Mind. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-62166795672215886562018-11-13T04:18:48.813-05:002018-11-13T04:18:48.813-05:00I felt so inspired by the author Brain and i agree...I felt so inspired by the author Brain and i agree it was hard to review such thick and tough book but you done it brilliantly :)<br /><br /><br />if was reading it i also would have skipped the math section lol<br /><br />it's totally beyond my limits and interest <br /><br />book is difficult yet must be very interesting specially section which concentrate upon human nature ,this is my favorite part <br /><br />being unique it is not easy to ignore such knowledgeable book ,if i get chance to read it i will definitely bailihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06498012175058870980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-29717861589343116912018-11-12T07:07:50.338-05:002018-11-12T07:07:50.338-05:00Thanks Brian for answering my question ... I think...Thanks Brian for answering my question ... I think I could be interested in "human consciousness" but I'd want to read about it by someone who is an excellent science communicator for the lay reader. It sounds like this is an excellent book but for someone with more than a "lay" scientific/mathematical brain? Whispering Gumshttps://whisperinggums.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-67483408011722281012018-11-12T05:19:09.130-05:002018-11-12T05:19:09.130-05:00Hi WG - This one is an odd one for sure. I would...Hi WG - This one is an odd one for sure. I would say that an interest in human consciousness would lead someone to want to read this. Also someone who is interested in big science books. The kind of books that try to pull the big ideas of science together relating to physics, biology etc. and then relate it all to culture and history. Carl Sagan was very good at that stuff. With that, this book was different from anything else that I have ever read. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-86915274501208789612018-11-11T20:31:41.997-05:002018-11-11T20:31:41.997-05:00I looked at the title of this post several times, ...I looked at the title of this post several times, and thought "what is that book?" A novel? Non-fiction? Finally I found the brain-space to click over the read it and all was revealed. Wow, is all I can say. I think I'm a very prosaic person - I'm not sure that the subject matter of this book - human consciousness etc - is one that concerns mea nought to want to delve further. What is it that you'd need to be interested in to want to read this? Can you explain.<br /><br />That said, Escher and Bach I love - and I know that their work has very analytical/structural underpinnings, but do I want to analyse their analysis?<br /><br />Thanks though for introducing me to this book. I had never heard of it. In 1979 I was newly married and was probably interested in other things!Whispering Gumshttps://whisperinggums.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-40484897293513052912018-11-10T16:13:27.550-05:002018-11-10T16:13:27.550-05:00Hi Naida - I think that most folks, even those pre...Hi Naida - I think that most folks, even those pretty good at math would find the math here to be too much! Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-6571422380546349692018-11-10T09:25:10.526-05:002018-11-10T09:25:10.526-05:00GEB sounds like a challenging but worthwhile read ...GEB sounds like a challenging but worthwhile read and I am glad you enjoyed it. Anything math related is not for me, it was always my worst subject in school. <br />Fantastic commentary as usual!The Bookwormhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10217390642323530030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-4599717257146936622018-11-10T09:11:49.255-05:002018-11-10T09:11:49.255-05:00Thanks Andrew. I will be putting up a post on I Am...Thanks Andrew. I will be putting up a post on I Am a Strange Loop soon. It was much easier to understand but less creativity put together. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-54308044998734011432018-11-10T04:44:28.359-05:002018-11-10T04:44:28.359-05:00Wow, this sounds fascinating, Brian! I love a chal...Wow, this sounds fascinating, Brian! I love a challenge, so maybe I'll pick this one up. On the other hand, perhaps "I Am a Strange Loop" would be an easier introduction. Even the title sounds a little more focused :) I enjoyed your review, anyway, and well done for making it through! I think I would have skipped the maths too...Andrew Blackmanhttps://andrewblackman.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-72750589953536971032018-11-08T22:24:50.400-05:002018-11-08T22:24:50.400-05:00Hi Tracy. This was weighty book indeed. I think th...Hi Tracy. This was weighty book indeed. I think thaf for this one it is imperative thaf the reader have an escape route.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-1488597767740339712018-11-08T13:01:10.332-05:002018-11-08T13:01:10.332-05:00737 very dense pages and challenging pages? No tha...737 very dense pages and challenging pages? No thank you. Because I cannot start a book and not finish it I'm loathe to begin such weighty tomes so well done you on a great review.Felicity Grace Terryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17852843882007267665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-50930479662106924312018-11-07T17:54:02.285-05:002018-11-07T17:54:02.285-05:00Hi Caroline - I understand that this book was all ...Hi Caroline - I understand that this book was all the rage for a few years after it came out. It still has a very devoted following in some quarters. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-40182641671539472072018-11-07T09:32:41.581-05:002018-11-07T09:32:41.581-05:00I would have skipped tha math parts too.
It's...I would have skipped tha math parts too. <br />It's funny to see this reviewed. It was so fashionable once but I haven't seen it mentioned in a long time. That said, I had no idea it was this dense. It sounds interesting but challenging. Carolinehttp://beautyisasleepingcat.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-47535513909450305032018-11-05T09:53:16.481-05:002018-11-05T09:53:16.481-05:00Thanks so much Maria. I think that even someone wh...Thanks so much Maria. I think that even someone who is really good in math would find this daunting. Even the music theory, which I have taken a few classes in, was challenging for me. I wonder if anyone could really get every aspect of this book. <br /><br />The Achilles and The Tortoise parts were at times so charming. I think that you will really like those parts and the philosophizing. <br /><br />That teacher who played the videos sounds awful!<br /><br />As you recall, I won a copy of I Am a Strange Loop from your blog giveaway. I will soon put up commentary on that. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-26071832470224493752018-11-05T01:25:07.182-05:002018-11-05T01:25:07.182-05:00AWESOME REVIEW as always, Brian!!
As you know, I ...AWESOME REVIEW as always, Brian!!<br /><br />As you know, I have recently purchased both of these books. I had heard of GEB some time ago, but had not given much thought to acquiring it. Interestingly, I have owned another work by this author, "The Mind's I", for several years now, but have not yet read it. Lol.<br /><br />Recently, I came across "I Am A Strange Loop", and decided to buy it. Then I found out that it was a sequel to GEB, so I said to myself, "Heck, I should read that one first!" Little did I know what I was getting into.....LOL.<br /><br />Well, I put "Strange Loop" aside, and waited for GEB to arrive (I bought both books on Amazon.) When it did, I flipped through it, looking for all the M.C. Escher illustrations. I LOVE this guy's art! It's so paradoxical and weird! :) I also enjoy listening to Bach's music. Now, Godel.....well, that's another matter. I've never liked math, except for Geometry. That's because I remember how much fun it was to draw circles and triangles in high school! Lol. But Algebra I LOATHED. I just didn't understand it, and thought it boring and totally pointless. That could be due, however, to the fact that the teacher would turn on the TV when we got to the classroom, and we would watch ANOTHER teacher, ON THE TV, mind you, teach the class. The teacher who was physically present in the room was just there in case we needed anything clarified, but she did not actually teach the class. Isn't that just CRAZY?! So anyway.....I never got to Calculus or Trig. Lol.<br /><br />I did some skimming of GEB, and then put it aside. I think this book might have been a lot more enjoyable -- for math haters like me -- if Hofstadter had left out all the math! :) :) I think he could have made his point just as well. Or perhaps not. But I can see why you skipped much of this material. You really have to be a professional mathematician to be able to understand all that stuff! <br /><br />I thought, from the skimming I did, that the parables about Achilles and the Tortoise were most likely the most enjoyable parts. Of course, I would love to read all the philosophizing, too! And I'm sure his discussion of the music of Bach, as well as Escher's art, must be fascinating. But then he had to go and spoil it with all that MATH. Lol, lol, lol.<br /><br />I would love to be able to read this book in its entirety, but, unless and until someone invents a magic learning pill that will make it easier for certain brains to digest math, well, then I'll be doing quite a bit of skimming when I do sit down to read this very challenging book! As you have pointed out in your EXCELLENT review, "Strange Loop" sounds much more accessible. Critics do seem to prefer the first book, though. I've read reviews that state that Hofstadter sounds "tamer" and even boring in "Strange Loop". Well, I have to do some skimming of this one, too. <br /><br />The overarching theme of both of these books is the nature of consciousness. I am DEFINITELY interested in this particular theme! I don't want to have to wade through all that difficult stuff to get to that, though. Hopefully, GEB will be somewhat comprehensible without having to read all the mathematical parts. But who knows? I might try my hand at solving one of the simpler problems. SIMPLER, mind you! LOL. <br /><br />You know, I think that, in order to appreciate this book properly, one needs to take some college courses in math, music theory, and art! The latter two would be a breeze for me, but the first one would be more like a hurricane! :) :) :) <br /><br />Hopefully, I'll get to GEB one of these days. And, like you, I will be dipping into "Strange Loop" pretty darn often as I read!<br /><br />Thanks for another of your ALWAYS insightful reviews!! Hope you have a GREAT week!! <3 :) <br /><br />Maria Beharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13635809880830316283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-17778606153999495992018-11-03T12:28:21.356-04:002018-11-03T12:28:21.356-04:00Thanks Marian - Some folks really into computers l...Thanks Marian - Some folks really into computers love this book. It does take patience but I found it rewarding. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-91465616903925536572018-11-03T12:09:51.691-04:002018-11-03T12:09:51.691-04:00Well-written and really useful review! I might st...Well-written and really useful review! I might start with that other book first. One of my computer science professors highly recommended this book, so I took a peek at this one once - gave up right then and there. However, I have a little more patience now, and the topic of patterns in science, nature, and art is really fascinating.Marian Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14115916138435761469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-6637234021024608582018-11-01T11:07:06.108-04:002018-11-01T11:07:06.108-04:00Hi Kat - The math was indeed daunting. But as I di...Hi Kat - The math was indeed daunting. But as I did one can skip and skim. Hofstadter does try and to some extent, get to, the beauty inherent in loops and similar phonomina. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-87816946704729488982018-11-01T10:44:07.627-04:002018-11-01T10:44:07.627-04:00Sounds fascinating. I've heard about this for...Sounds fascinating. I've heard about this for years, but the minute I hear about math I know it would be beyond me. I do wish I could go back in time and study loops and all that: a friend told me it's like poetry. I did enjoy your review and that's as close as I will probably get.Kathttp://thornfieldhall.blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-3474850679908882412018-10-31T23:12:36.890-04:002018-10-31T23:12:36.890-04:00Thanks Janes - This was indeed unusual. It does al...Thanks Janes - This was indeed unusual. It does also stimulate interest in so many areas. In looking through commentary on this book, so many people feel the same way. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-10304939509482709712018-10-31T23:09:49.719-04:002018-10-31T23:09:49.719-04:00Hi Susan - The Pulitzer Prize for General Literatu...Hi Susan - The Pulitzer Prize for General Literature is given out to non - fiction so this book won it.<br /><br />I should have done a better job of explaining loops. If you look at Escher’s Waterfall here:<br /><br />https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterfall_(M._C._Escher)<br /><br />The path of the water is the kind of loop that the author is referring to. He finds similar patterns in music, math, etc. I will try to be a little clearer in my commentary on I Am a Strange Loop. <br />Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-68728223765889216462018-10-31T19:41:34.199-04:002018-10-31T19:41:34.199-04:00Your fine review brings back fond memories of this...Your fine review brings back fond memories of this wonderful book. My interests in music, mind, and philosophy were often piqued by Hofstadter. I especially remember the way he interwove the work of Bach through both metaphorical and literal discussions as he built his hierarchically structured book. While there were moments of confusion and some math that was (and still is) beyond me, the use of humor and references to Lewis Carroll (and Zeno) were enough, along with Bach (and Escher), to keep me interested. <br />One of my favorite moments was when Hofstadter embedded a discussion of the structure of Bach's "Goldberg Variations" within the dialog of Achilles & the Tortoise about number theory. It remains one of the most unusual books I have ever encountered.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00561320676355168336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-15804639489295364672018-10-31T18:15:00.899-04:002018-10-31T18:15:00.899-04:00Wow I am already lost. When you say loops -- what...Wow I am already lost. When you say loops -- what do you mean exactly? I haven't heard of this book but I'm wondering did he win the Lit award for a novel -- and if so, what was it? I congratulate you for reading much of this very challenging work. I do think the parts on human consciousness sound enticing or intriguing, but the book is likely way, way behind me. Thx for trying to wrap it up. thecuecardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08870323589682197091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4043273283783489008.post-86549082881258368212018-10-31T10:31:12.010-04:002018-10-31T10:31:12.010-04:00Thanks Cathy. I think that most popular science bo...Thanks Cathy. I think that most popular science books are no where this difficult. I love Sagan. However I think that his pure science books are getting s little outdated. I have heard that Neil deGrasse Tyson and Lisa Randall have some really good books out. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.com